Sustainable Parenting

75. How to Support Twice Exceptional Children with Victoria Williams

• Flora McCormick, LCPC, Parenting Coach

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Is your child finding it hard to fit in at school even though they have amazing talents in some areas?

In this episode, we talk with Victoria Williams, an expert in helping twice exceptional ("2E") children, who have both incredible strengths and unique challenges. We look at how you can support your child by understanding their experiences and finding the right balance between encouraging their gifts and helping them with their struggles.

After listening to this episode, you'll:
🌟Learn how some 2e kids try to blend in & it's impact on their emotions & behavior.
🌟Benefits of flexible learning environment.
🌟Explore the role of advocacy.

Tune in for helpful insights and simple strategies to support your twice exceptional child with care and confidence. Trusting your instincts and reaching out for support are all part of the process.

✨Want more?

1) Use this link for a FREE 20 min clarity call with Sustainable Parenting.

2) Download the FREE pdf. on getting kids to listen

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

You're listening to episode 75 of the Sustainable Parenting Podcast with me, flora McCormick, licensed therapist, parenting coach and early childhood mental health consultant. We're diving in today with Victoria Williams, who is an educator and specializes in understanding and helping those that are twice exceptional or have other unique diagnoses that lead them to need specialized support in the education system. So let's see what Victoria has to say and offer us in understanding these amazing, unique children better and how we can best support them. Hello and welcome to the Sustainable Parenting Podcast. Let me tell you, friend, this place is different. We fill that gap between gentle parenting and harsh discipline that's really missing to parent with kindness and firmness at the same time, and give you the exact steps to be able to parent in ways that are more realistic and effective and, for that reason, finally feel sustainable.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

Welcome, so, um. So let's dive right in. I you know to the listener, who may not understand what twice exceptional is, let's define that a little bit first. So in my understanding and please feel free to add to this twice exceptional means that um children have, you know, unique, advanced abilities in some area math, language, the arts and they also may have some challenges in the area of ADHD, dyslexia, sensory processing disorders or something else, socially, emotionally, is that correct?

Victoria Williams:

Correct. Yeah, that's spot on. In more and more general terms, if you're going to just put it kind of bluntly, it's those children that are diagnosed, gifted, especially, you know, my generation millennials there's a big push for the gifted and talented program circumstances have ADHD or are on the autism spectrum and thus, because of some of these struggles or dyslexia or sensory processing, all of that kind of falls under the neurodiverse umbrella. Those children that are neurodiverse and also gifted, just historically have not had the opportunities to succeed unless they mask, which means present very neurotypical to the rest of their peers and teachers and educational communities. So yeah, it's something that is very common and also there has not been a lot of research done until the previous, maybe 15 years on. Twice exceptionalism and what that really looks like in a child.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

So yeah, wow, and so, yeah, when you talk about masking, I want to dive more into this. I think my biggest question is you know, yeah, what do we notice about these twice exceptional kids are both their biggest challenges in the classroom and strengths in the classroom, and then same at home. When you're talking about masking, I'm curious if that you know. Some parents that I work with will say he does great at school, like the totally polite, and I'm always getting the report that he couldn't be more respectful, he's so intelligent and yet then he comes home and is just like a meltdown monster, like, yeah, would you say that may be a piece of a child that's twice exceptional.

Victoria Williams:

I would say it's a huge piece of a child that's twice exceptional, mainly because, um, you know, especially for these children that are very advanced in one way or another, many twice exceptional children have like an intense perception of the world around them and can perceive people's feelings very well, can perceive people's just general dispositions, and they tend to be very observant children. And when you're put in kind of a high pressure situation like school, traditional schooling, is kind of a high pressure situation for a lot of children, particularly traditional models of education where you spend the whole day sitting in a desk being quiet, sitting still and listening while someone talks at you all day. Those children are very good oftentimes at masking that and saying, wow, internally everything is chaos and this is extremely challenging to sit still and listen all day to something that I might not even care about, you know, and I know that if I don't sit here and pay attention for the next eight hours I'm going to get in trouble, you know. So a lot of these really high functioning, gifted children are also the ones who internally really struggle and it's really hard for them. So it makes perfect sense that after eight hours of having to hold everything in and keep it all together. When they get home, which is their safe place, with their safe people, their parents, their siblings, their trusted caregivers they melt down literally because they're like I have had to hold it together all day, and they don't know this cognitively, but I've had to hold it together all day and now I'm exhausted, you know.

Victoria Williams:

And then, and then for parents, that's when the true day begins for them, cause maybe they've been at work all day or doing other things all day, and so then they're like, yay, I'm excited to spend time with my child. And then their child is like a little gremlin, you know know, which is totally understandable, because they've had to hold it together all day in an environment where they feel deeply uncomfortable and probably don't know why they feel deeply uncomfortable, you know so, especially at a very young age, when some of these traits begin to emerge. Um, I mean, I spent 10 years teaching children ages two and a half to seven. That was kind of my wheelhouse. I've been a montessori primary guide for 10 years teaching children ages two and a half to seven. That was kind of my wheelhouse.

Victoria Williams:

I've been a Montessori primary guide for 10 years and I've had in my teaching career, I've had, you know dozens of twice exceptional children that I wouldn't have. I would have had no idea that they were twice exceptional because they mask so brilliantly and I could see their gifts so strongly. And the beauty of a Montessori environment, a true, authentic Montessori environment, is that those children get to follow what they're interested in. They get to follow their passions, because the tenet of Montessori is follow the child.

Victoria Williams:

So those children who maybe had really intense behavioral patterns from the time they were three, all the way through the time they were six in my classroom we could work around it because perhaps, like I had one child who I had for three full years more than actually four full years, from the time he was newly three, all the way through six and a half and um he, it was hard. Daily we got into intense power struggles to the point where you know I'm arguing with a six-year-old, yeah, and he's matching wits with me, so clearly he's gifted, not saying anything about myself other than you know I'm like 24 years his senior.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

No, but many parents will identify with what you're talking about Totally Arguments and think, oh right, he is totally. You know getting the best of me here.

Victoria Williams:

Yes, and getting him to do anything academic, you know, like sit down and practice your multiplication? No, sit down and let's write a story. No, he's the most creative child in the world and now he's eight, nine, he's nine years old now, this child in particular, and he writes full comic books and illustrates them beautifully. So, like, clearly, he could have sat down and written a story. He was at a third grade reading level in kindergarten, but getting him to do anything that he didn't want to do, impossible, impossible as a teacher.

Victoria Williams:

So I had to pivot entirely as a teacher myself and I got him a set of big Lego, like, not like little tiny Legos, but 1000 of them, and I'd put an architecture book in front of them and I'd say, pick your favorite building. And he would pick, like you know, the Empire State Building. And he would take his Legos and build the Empire State Building. And then we would go back and we'd write facts about it, you know, and I would would, we'd help him research and then he'd write about it. But that was two weeks of his time, you know, sitting at a time being able to sit and do that and, given a traditional school setting, not possible, you know. So that kind of got me thinking like what about all these children that don't have that kind of support, that don't have that kind of ability Like creative solutions?

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

Yeah, right. A teacher's offering creative ways to meet their intelligence level in a way that also works with their desire to not just be told what to do.

Victoria Williams:

Exactly Because, in a lot of you know, just even as an adult, if you feel out of control at all, what are you going to do? You're going to hold on to even tighter and really assert no, this is what I'm doing, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. So, as a child, when you have no control, ultimately, over your own self, you know adults pick you up and drop you off where they need to take you. You're on, you're at the whim of the adult in your life, when, when that's your life, and internally you have no idea what's going on in your tiny brain, and then you're forced into a certain mode of thinking and expected to perform in a certain way. You know that's it's just unfair, it's unfair to these kids. So you know that's kind of over my 10 year teaching journey these kids. So you know that's kind of over my 10 year teaching journey. I came to really see like, wow, you know, there's so many children who are just destined for greatness and funneled into mediocrity and sometimes beyond that, funneled into something that's going to squelch their fire, purposefully, you know.

Victoria Williams:

And and then, three years ago, I had a child of my own and my whole world turned upside down, like I thought I knew how to deal with kids. I've been doing it for a long time. You know, I started teaching when I was 18 years old. I was like, yeah, I know what I'm doing. And then, you know, I've been in Montessori since I was 21 years old. Like this is what I've done in my whole life and I thought I knew it all. And then I had my own child and my child boy is he? You know, he's the smartest little person I've ever met and he's not yet three years old. So um it, it kind of flipped everything on my head for me. And then, as a parent, that's when I really woke up to it and I was like wow, looking back, these fierce parents who advocated endlessly for their children, they're the inspiration, you know. Like wow, and not every parent has the capability to do that, you know, or the bandwidth to do that, because I know better than anyone.

Victoria Williams:

Now, when you're a full time working professional and you have a toddler and sometimes you have a toddler and an infant how on earth do you even have the time to learn about anything, any parenting strategies, let alone what is a twice exceptional child or what is neurodivergence? Yeah, and why is my toddler? You know like? Why do they sit in the corner screaming for hours at a time? You know like, I don't know, but as a parent, you, you gotta figure it out too.

Victoria Williams:

And that's where I, that's where I notice the gap is that, you know, our society is and large, quite an individualistic society, especially here in the United States. We're taught pull yourself up by your bootstraps and do it all yourself. The American dream and all of that is beautiful, but it's not possible without resources and a community behind you. And when you're a parent of a very young child, you feel like you don't have a community behind you. And when you're a parent of a very young child, you feel like you don't have a community sometimes because you're just trying to wake up your kids in the morning, get them dressed and out the door before you know 8am. And that's hard, yeah, and so is everyone else with kids that age.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

you know right, like wonderful if you can line up with other people in your stage of life, but it's also challenging because everyone's in a very full stage of life with little bandwidth to come up for air, much less support one another. So I think, yeah, we're needing more and more systems and organizations and avenues for connecting parents to each other and connecting them to those resources, like you said. Yes, absolutely so. Oh my gosh, so so many things you've brought up that I want back up to just a little bit because it's just so rich.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

One thing going back to okay. So then, if a child or if a parent is able to have some way of noticing that perhaps what's going on with their child is not just that they're crazy, but that they are, you know, twice exceptional, perhaps they're struggling with some social emotional factors and having that be combined with highly intelligent, being highly intelligent and that being overwhelming in the school system for them. If they were to discover that they think their child is twice exceptional, what are some thoughts for you about what that child can, or parent can best do to support their child, both in the classroom and at home?

Victoria Williams:

Yeah, I want to preface my answer by saying that I am not a clinician, I am not a doctor, and my viewpoint is entirely based on my experience as a teacher of these children and a friend to parents who have gone through the process of diagnosis along with it.

Victoria Williams:

Um, and that's that's where I can speak from Um and I, I work closely with people who have gone through diagnoses with their own children themselves. So, um, I guess where I like to start with that is like parents need to give themselves a little more credit, just first and foremost, because parents do know their children best. I firmly believe that, um, you know, you can, you can see it everywhere your child is off and you know that they're off, and you take them to a doctor and the doctor's like oh, they're fine. Oh, they're fine, it's um, it's almost like you know, a mild form of gaslighting at a certain point, where you know that something is not quite sitting right and everyone else is telling you they'll grow out of it, it's fine, yes, um, so my, my first point is I think parents should always trust that parent instinct and trust that they trust that, trust your gut.

Victoria Williams:

You know you know your best and if you feel that something's off, you know that. You deeply know that. So the hard thing, especially here in Bozeman and Gallatin Valley, is that we have a lot of brilliant people here in Bozeman. We have the university, we have a lot of really skilled young professionals and young families here and just a lot of smart people, which is cool. I mean, every community has a lot of smart people and I just notice it more because I've been in this community for my whole life and what I've come to see from that is that we've got a lot of needs here and very few ultimate professionals who can handle all of these needs. You know, I think here in Bozeman there's maybe like three places that parents can go to get a full evaluation for autism spectrum disorder or ADHD with children that specialize in pediatric ADHD or pediatric autism, and especially for for young girls too, because that research is so new, um and yeah, which. I could go into that for hours. But getting those resources and even getting to the point where you can access an evaluation is a long process. It takes like a solid year from the time that you sent something to then go to your pediatrician. Your pediatrician has to refer you to someone else and your insurance company has to validate that referral and then it's expensive, takes a long time and a lot of effort. And what I've come to know is that parents of toddlers and early childhood years age children the time that they need the help is immediately, it's not in a year. You know, it's now like what can I do now to help my child? And those professionals here in Bozeman are so skilled and so good and they're booked a year out too. So then you're like well, what do you do? And that's where I firmly believe it comes back to community and shared experiences and lived experiences.

Victoria Williams:

And teachers are excellent resources because teachers have seen hundreds, you know hundreds of children throughout their careers, especially teachers who have been doing it over the course of, you know, five, 10, 15, 20 years. They've seen the children of Bozeman come through their doors and they've seen a lot and they have a lot of knowledge. And as a society, do we listen to teachers anymore? No, not really, but we should. Do we listen to parents? Yeah, teachers and parents. Do we listen to parents? Not really, because the professionals know better. You know, that's, that's the, that's what they believe, um. And I'm not saying that professionals don't know, because they do. There's a reason that they are a professional at what they do, um.

Victoria Williams:

But there needs to be some way to bridge the gap between a parent, a struggling parent of a toddler, and the doctor who has a year long wait list.

Victoria Williams:

So what I, what I'm trying to do, and what I've been trying to do for the past year during my graduate program, um is um to create a network, is to create a network collective of parents, teachers, mentors, neurodivergent folks themselves, anyone who loves children and wants to see children be successful in whatever they choose to do. I'm trying to create a network of those folks who can come together and offer their guidance and offer their lived experience to parents who need it desperately now. And part of that is sometimes there's no need for a diagnosis because, again, you that your child has something sensory off about them, the way they process the world around them, the way they interpret feelings, the way that they view others, if something just doesn't feel normative. But normative is such a relative term now because one in four adults has neurodivergence of some sort that we know of. So like what is the norm. I think that's being redefined right now. Absolutely yeah, diversity is more the norm.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

I think that's being redefined right now. Absolutely yeah. Diversity is more the norm, I think, or the norm of learning, it's yeah. What is your uniqueness Not? Are you someone who's normal versus someone who's unique, right?

Victoria Williams:

I would think, oh, and I was going to mention. I do feel that a lot of what I see in the educational system, public and private, is you know, here's the standard and if you don't meet the standard, you're down here and you stay down here, whereas if you're going to flip education on its head and bring equity and joy back into the field of education, you can't focus on the deficits and what they can't do. That'll get you nowhere. It will ruin their self-esteem, it will make them sad. They don't want to come to school.

Victoria Williams:

At that point you got to flip that. You got to say okay, what are your gifts? We already know that you can't do some things as well as others, and that's fine. No one can. Everyone has strengths and deficits. What are your strengths? Tiny four-year-old, you know what do I see in you here? I had this wonderful positive discipline teacher at the positive discipline conference named Jodi, and she lives in Idaho and she, at one of her workshops last summer, made this comment that as a teacher and as a parent and whoever you are, someone who loves children, you've got to be a talent scout. You need to be a talent scout and the moment you walk in the door you search for that person's talents and I just thought that was so beautiful, because so often we walk in the door and say, well, they can't do that, they can't do that, they're never going to be able to do that, and that kind of like purposeful hindrance on a tiny child's spirit is counterproductive to education in general, I believe.

Victoria Williams:

Yes, and let's be clear, like as you're describing that I'm thinking. I know that there are times where it's easy to be a talent scout. Right, you walk in you see the sweet little girl who's very like rule following and calm and a bright smile, and then she maybe performs something well, like being socially connected or doing something in math or writing, and it's easy to catch that like because there's a baseline of nothing disruptive. It's easier to then see the talent. But if we have with the twice exceptional child, we have a baseline of possibly something disruptive that, like you said, could be covering up us seeing their strengths, and so that's where I think it takes even extra for us as teachers or parents to say, okay, how can I see all of this? Can I see that this child who is prone to screaming or not being able to sit still, can I still be a talent scout with them?

Victoria Williams:

And that is so hard, so hard, so hard, especially. I can say this from experience as a teacher of tiny humans and a parent to tiny human. At the end of the day, when my child is, you know, screaming because I didn't give him the right sized Cheeto, for example, it can be really challenging to see past that and say, you know, come on, dude, like you have 50 other Cheetos, can you pick at every one? You know. But at that moment, you know, I need to flip my, I need to work actively to flip my lens and say, wow, you've been at school all day and now you're just tired. You didn't nap today. You're tired and you know what. Good for you that you know exactly what you want to eat.

Victoria Williams:

And rather than fight you and tell you it doesn't matter, as your parent and someone who's going to be a talent scout right now, my job is to say let me help you find another one that looks like that, rather than say you're dumb, you don't eat another Cheeto. Like excusing our children left and right, they get, they get that all day, from all angles, and part of being a talent scout, as a parent or a teacher, is to get on board with them. You know you talk about this all the time, just in your parenting and in your podcast that you know you got to go with your children Like you are their example. And how do we? How do we lead good leaders? Lead by example. So I want to show my child how to bring them along. You know, not separate.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

Yes, and because I know you're such an intelligent like experienced educator. I know you and such an intelligent like experienced educator, I know you and I know the language we're speaking, but I want to make sure the listener understands the language we're speaking here.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

So, for those that are listening. You know what I, what we're talking about here. What I love in your example there, victoria, is you're doing this, the let go of the power struggle rope like that can often happen with these twice exceptional kids. They're fixated on something that they want and we could stay fixated on the opposite thing that we want, and then, back and forth, we pull until it ends badly in both directions, or at least for one of us. Or we can parent smarter, not harder, or educate smarter, not harder, and let go of that power struggle rope, come to the child's side and hold their side with them, which to me sounds usually something like we name it to tame it. We name what?

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

they're experiencing Right, like you just said, you're like, okay, let me let go of, like you can't have this Cheeto and just be like so something about having it? That size really mattered to you. Am I getting that right, you know? And if we can connect before we correct again one of positive disciplines, wonderful phrases then we usually have a smarter gateway towards the correction, and I think that this is especially true for our twice gifted children.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

I've had several families come through my mentoring program where this is a key piece that they lose sight of because of the intelligence. The intelligence is such an interesting mask that, like you said, they're saying such highly intelligent things that we can then think we need to just have an intelligent conversation and argue back and forth till the intellect of one of us is going to win. But instead, when we know that this is also a child who struggles with social emotional intelligence or something within that like sensory emotional system, we got to drop this facade. That it's about overthinking and connect, name their feeling, get on. Is this really what's bothering you? And then work with them on how do we solve this together.

Victoria Williams:

Right. And then you also have to remember, from a brain development standpoint they're six or five or four years old, or three or two years old. Your brain doesn't stop developing until you're like 28, 26, 27, 28. Your brain doesn't stop developing until you're like 28,. You know 26, 27, 28. So who are we as adults to assume that that child can even understand what we're talking about? Because intellectually they might be able to, but from a brain development standpoint their brains haven't even formed yet. Their executive functioning hasn't fully come in yet. So, like it's unfair to all of us, it's a disservice to yourself to make assumptions that your child can match wits with you. Even if they can, you know, you gotta be kind to yourself in that moment to make your life easier. Get on their team for once. You know, like just do it.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

Yes, and again it's like it doesn't mean you don't ever have an intellectual conversation with this highly intellectual child, but in an emotional moment, you know, we know our brains and bodies are wired to be efficient and so, yeah, the flipped lid, if the, if the emotion is getting, what's really where all the blood flow is going, then of course that logical prefrontal cortex doesn't have capacity there. So have the intellectual conversation outside of your upset moments, problem solving, thinking about how you might want to make different agreements in advance and and those types of things. But, yeah, so. So the big picture I'm hearing and just want to reiterate is is is that with our twice exceptional kids, this template still really matters and I think matters a ton. And for those that want to listen more, go back to episode blank. I'm going to have to go back and record my voice saying whatever episode.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

That is where we talk about why typical parenting strategies might not be working with your neurodivergent child, and it's because a lot of times people get into that intellectual space with neurodivergent child and it's because a lot of times people get into that intellectual space with neurodivergent kids. But we're kind of going on such a tangent. Let's reel it a little bit but back in. So let's say we have this kid that's held it together all day long. They come home to us and we're trying to do the best that we can for them to keep a positive relationship, keep a good relationship between them and their siblings. What advice would you have for parents about what you think is really important for them?

Victoria Williams:

Yeah, say yes. You know, like, at the end of the day, to the best of your abilities, saying yes to your child kind of thing to do. Now, sometimes your child will come home and be like I'm only going to eat ice cream for dinner and that's all I'm going to eat. In that circumstance, you know you are the parent, you are the adult and you know what's good for them in the moment. You know the kind thing to do, which is to say well, ice cream sounds delicious. Let's have ice cream after we have our protein, because protein is going to help our tummies feel good. You know, yes, and first we're going to do this, you know first. Then, yes, that sounds amazing. I love ice cream. First we're going to eat our chicken nuggets and then we can have a little bit of ice cream. That sounds great.

Victoria Williams:

You know I use this all the time because my child, like most children, all he wants to do is watch. You know, go go dino on YouTube every day, all the time, and from my parenting standpoint, I'm not going to let him sit and watch TV all day, every day, and so it might be something for me like he's come home at the end of the day. He didn't nap at school. He's really tired, he's really cranky and he's like mama, I just want to watch Go Go Dino. And I'm like, yeah, you know what that sounds like. A really good idea. I can see that you really want to do that. Validate those feelings first. Immediately, you can totally understand, relate, empathize. I feel like that sometimes too, especially after a long day. I just want to sit on the couch and watch my show too. I get it and then offer a solution that you can both agree upon. Well, it's still beautiful outside. Let's go outside and play for an hour and then we can come in and watch 15 minute episode before dinner. Here we go, let's go's go, you know. And then, if he argues with that, then I have to hold that boundary, especially with twice exceptional children, because they are so smart. You have to hold the boundary once you set it. And so if he's, if he cries about it, I'm going to stay really positive and say, yeah, this is what I'm going to do. Come on, come join me. It's so beautiful outside, let me go grab a ball, engage them. Otherwise, Again, bring them with you. You're on the same team.

Victoria Williams:

And I see from experience, and even in the classroom, I've seen a lot of teachers who the child says no, they buckle down even harder and say well, if you don't do this, then I'm going to punish you. In this way, I'm going to take away your recess time, when really the child just needs to go to recess, probably in the moment. That's why they're not focusing. Um, so I guess, yeah, just say yes, you know, to your kid and and find the ways to say yes, be a talent scout for yourself.

Victoria Williams:

You know how can I be, uh, an asset to my child right now instead of a hindrance to their happiness, you know, and it's very different from catering to your child's every whim and request, because that's permissive parenting, you know, and that doesn't help anyone. Being too nice to your kids all the time and letting them do whatever they want doesn't serve them, in my opinion, doesn't serve them as well as being an authoritative parent, like we speak about in positive discipline. You know, kind and firm. You know I'm going to be kind to you and the kind thing to do in this moment is to have you eat your chicken nuggets, because I know that your tummy will be happy and you'll sleep better if you have a belly full of protein and carbs before you eat your ice cream. You know that's the kind thing to do. Is it nice to tell my child, no, you can't have that. No, but I'm not concerned with being nice all the time. I'm concerned with doing the right thing and being good and kind to my child.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

Yeah, it's a really important differentiation, like it's not just about being nice or not always about them being happy, but it's true kindness and joy. Those are the alternatives. When we parent with that kindness that also has authority and wisdom behind it, I think it also leads to their overall true joy. I mean we see again and again kids that are overly coddled and had that permissive parenting then are more prone to depression and anxiety because they don't know how to feel okay unless everything's made perfect for them or all the things are fixed so they can be quote happy. So I think joy is a deeper, wiser place to live, which can come through also moments where they had to deal with hearing no or hearing that they can do it after something you know, like that.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

That's what really that is, I call that, saying no with a yes, the yes when. Blah, blah, blah. You can do so overall. We've talked about some things parents can do for twice exceptional one. Listen to your gut. You know something's wrong. Listen to that to look for ways you can let go of power struggles and be able to. You know parents smarter, not harder. Connect, name their feelings, validate, problem solve with the child and look for ways to say no with a yes, the when. Then mentality. What else do you think is especially important with these twice exceptional children in the classroom or at home?

Victoria Williams:

Yes, three things. The first thing is for the parent, and that is self-care, and honoring yourself and your limits is vital, because parents should not feel like they are martyrs. You know, parents love their children deeply and would do anything for their children, and we all know that, especially those of us who are parents. We feel that deeply and I believe you can't parent your best if you are not at your best. If you don't feel good, if you don't feel healthy and balanced, how on earth are you supposed to guide your child, who's experiencing internal chaos, back to balance? So, as a parent, taking the time finding that trusted babysitter, take the time. Here in Bozeman we have a beautiful network of really talented babysitters. You know, reach out to Roots Family Collaborative. Reach out to any of these beautiful organizations that we have. You know, reach out to me at EduCatalyst. You know that's my whole job and my mission is to just connect parents with other people who are on their team in this, because parenting is hard and it does take a village I know that's such an overused phrase, but it does and you got to find your tribe in parenting so that you can take care of yourself before you take care of anyone else. So that's my first little thing is like parent self-care is so important.

Victoria Williams:

The second thing is, as again as a parent, but as specifically as a parent of a twice exceptional child, is don't be afraid to advocate vocally and openly and frequently for what you know your child needs. Um, you know, as a teacher and I've worked in four different schools over my teaching career I came to realize that teachers are doing the best that they can, and serving 30 families a day is hard and sometimes the teacher doesn't have the bandwidth to listen. But if you go above them to the head of school, if you go to principals, if you go to the teacher frequently enough, perhaps they'll think you're just a squeaky wheel. But if you've got a good teacher and a good head of school, a good principal, they will take notice. And I like to.

Victoria Williams:

One thing that I do feel I did really well as a teacher was make those connections with parents and listen to what they were telling me. Because again it comes back to I know them, they know them best, they know their children best and I might spend more waking hours with their child in these early years than they do. All the more reason to listen to them. So don't be afraid to advocate for your twice exceptional child, you know. Also, don't be afraid of getting a diagnosis. I know some people are really hesitant to box their children into any one diagnosis, but it's not a death sentence. It simply is more information that you can's, not that your child's just stamped with the scarlet letter.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

It's quite the opposite usually. Oh okay, let's open these, this doorway, that doorway, so you have resources.

Victoria Williams:

Exactly, and we're so fortunate here in Bozeman to have a really vibrant homeschooling community and micro school community and Montessori school community. We have the highest rate in Bozeman of Montessori schools in the world per capita. You know like that's, that's pretty cool, it's a good, good place to be. So, you know, don't be afraid to shop around either. If you feel that your child's educational environment isn't serving them the way that you know they could be served, go somewhere else. You know, like and and the good schools are not going to take offense to that, because our mission as now I'm a Montessori school administrator here in Bozeman and our mission at Bozeman Montessori is to give the child what we can, to the best of our abilities. And if we can't serve that child and the family's ready to move on, great, let us help you find something that does work for your child. Because, again, montessori is not about competition.

Victoria Williams:

Montessori philosophy at its root is about collaboration and social equity. Maria Montessori was a champion for the underprivileged and a champion for social justice and equity. And these twice exceptional children are at a disadvantage in society. Should they be? Absolutely not. But as it stands they sometimes are at a disadvantage. So, you know, shop around find what works for you and your family, especially here in Montana and everywhere. There's vibrant homeschool, micro school communities nationwide. You know that you can, and not only that resources. There are so many resources out there. It's just a matter of finding them.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

This is such a good yeah, which I'm guessing is your point number three to maybe reach out to resources like EduCatalyst.

Victoria Williams:

That is my point. Number three is you know it can be very vulnerable and scary as a parent knowing that the idea and the picture of your child that you have held on to since before they were born is different than the reality. It can be hard to let go of that a little bit and let go of that control that you feel and ask and be vulnerable and ask for help. You know, like everyone needs help, we all need help all the time. Like everyone needs help, we all need help all the time and um, so don't be afraid to seek out resources and seek out connections. Uh, you know all of us at EduCatalyst. I have a team of 12 beautiful people with me, um, that are brilliant and kind and all they want to do is give parents resources and connect them with people, because all of us know a lot of people after as many years as we've all been in this field.

Victoria Williams:

You know and um, use that. You know, use your resources, use your community and and those that don't want to share their resources with you there's like 10 other people right next to them who do so. Don't get discouraged. Your tribe and your community is there. Yeah, just find them. And if you need help finding them, reach out to Flora, you know. Reach out to me at Educatalyst Collective, like reach out to Roots Family Collaborative. Reach out to anyone you know your school, your school and your teacher full of good resources, but people don't think to ask sometimes because it's so hard so yeah, it does.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

It can be hard because it takes, I think, two main pieces. It takes bravery to say yes.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

I'm gonna name that something's not going well for me and that can feel scary to do, because I a fear fear of judgment. Maybe you're judging yourself or think others are going to judge you for why that thing is true in your life. And secondly, I think we don't always we don't know what we don't know. I know you and I have both talked about that and so, like you, we go into every situation with a lot of assumptions. I remember when my son started kindergarten, he was coming home telling me that he was not having anyone to play with at recess and that he would just walk around the playground with his hands in his pockets, crying behind his little sunglasses.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

Oh, yeah, and of course, my mom's heart was just like broken, having a hard time, you know, at transition of drop off, and so it was very hard for me as a stay at home mom who was first time transitioning my child into the full time care of someone else, and and it took reaching out to the school and saying, hey, this problem's happening. I don't know if you're aware and again, like you said, when they're with 3020 other kids, they may not fully have noticed that. And I had to advocate for myself. Who can help me with this? Who can help me know if he does have friends? Or is there a counselor who connects kids that are a little bit disconnected so that they can make a friend with someone? And sure enough there was a liaison person who was able from Thrive to go check on him at recess.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

And then I was reminded here's your you know email your teacher. It's okay to directly reach out. And that felt like a scary, like really am I bothering them? I don't know they have so much to do, but, like you said, you know it takes, do it, speak up for yourself, advocate and I'm always saying that to parents as well Like you are the warrior that knows your kid best and is always going to fight for them the most. So don't be afraid, you know, worst case scenario, someone thinks I'm a little weird or overbearing because I reached out to find help for my kid. I will take that. I will take that on.

Victoria Williams:

And you know not, not part of your tribe, that's fine, they're part of someone else's. You find your other people who are willing to listen you know just, I'm passionate about it, clearly.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

Well, thank you so much, victoria. We'll make sure to leave a link to your organization, educatalyst, where families can come if they're looking for more resources around how to best meet their unique child's needs and for those that are looking for social emotional support. Please remember you can always reach out to Sustainable Parenting, as we've had many twice exceptional families come through the program and seen benefit in the Sustainable Parenting model. So glad to get to chat with you about all of these details and um and ways.

Victoria Williams:

Thank you so much for like, thank you so much for giving me a platform to speak to this because, again, I I feel like I don't get the opportunity often to share my passions with other people who care, because I'm a mom of a toddler, so I know my head's in the day to day every day.

Flora McCormick, LCPC:

So it's really special. Thank you so much.