Sustainable Parenting

59. How to Be Kind & Firm (part 3) with Jane Nelsen: Navigating Parenting Challenges with Practical Tools

• Flora McCormick, LCPC, Parenting Coach

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Join us for the third part of our insightful interview with Jane Nelsen, the well-known author of Positive Discipline.  Jane shares more wisdom on practical strategies to parent with both kindness and firmness at the same time.

In this episode, we talk about how Positive Discipline can change the way you and your kids connect. Jane explains how to effectively communicate and build teamwork at home.

After listening, you'll learn:

🌟Key phrases to help you to not overly coddle or overly control your children.
🌟 HOW and WHY to hold family meetings just 20 minutes a week.
🌟 How mistakes transform into growth opportunities

Discover how to turn tricky moments into chances to grow closer. Learn the importance of being consistent, kind, and respectful.

Tune in for an episode full of helpful tips and stories that will help you raise confident, caring, and strong kids.  And here is the handout from Jane on phrases of Kindness and Firmness.

✨Want more?

1) Use this link for a FREE 20 min clarity call with Sustainable Parenting.

2) Download the FREE pdf. on getting kids to listen

Jane Nelsen:

But one thing I really don't want to put pressure on parents is okay, now you should be perfect, Because this is not about being perfect. This is about how. What do I do? And to me, I really believe that the one thing we can do that would save time, a lot of time for parents who are busy to have regular family meetings for 20 minutes a week, once a week.

Flora McCormick:

Welcome to episode 59, where we have the third part and conclusion of an interview with the amazing Jane Nelson, author and creator of Positive Discipline, who has sold over 2 million copies worldwide and trains teachers and educators across more than 90 countries. She is phenomenal and today helps us to understand, first of all, what are some key phrases that demonstrate kindness and firmness at the same time. Secondly, how mistakes can be wonderful opportunities to learn. And third of all, talks about family meetings and how we can do them even if we're the busiest parents ever. And then we conclude with me asking her a few questions that are hot on my mind.

Flora McCormick:

Let's dive in, really appreciate all of your wisdom and this thought about kindness and firmness. I completely agree with you. I think we're in this pendulum shift from the early 70s 80s that was more, very firm to you know, I've heard some, I think you describe it we used to have powerful adults and powerless children, but in some ways now we have powerful children and powerless adults, exactly Wow, and that that I really. This is why I think your wisdom is a classic, not out of date, because you have stuck to those. How do we be kind and firm at the same time? We cannot, we don't want to be in either end of that spectrum, and I think that our culture and our families are really just needing your wisdom of this middle place to be kind and firm at the same time.

Jane Nelsen:

The kind and firm at the same time is one is validate feelings. I know you don't want to stop playing and it is time for whatever show. Understanding I know you would rather watch tv than your homework and homework needs to be done first. Uh, or redirection, you don't want to brush your teeth and we'll do it together, I see. Can you see how these are all kind and firm? Yes, I know you want to mow the lawn, and what was our agreement? Yes, go ahead.

Flora McCormick:

Okay. So yes, your last to say provide a choice you don't want to go to bed and it is bedtime. Do you want one story or two stories as soon as your jammies are on? And the last a choice, and then follow through by deciding what you will do. I know you want to keep playing video games and your time is up. You can turn it off now or I will. It will be put in my closet. Yeah, it's just the essence of that. I love you and the answer is no, being applied over and over and over again. I'm connecting to what's bothering you and I'm holding the boundary over here Seems like it would be good for me to include this handout on kind and firm at the same time in our show notes, right, but we do.

Jane Nelsen:

I know, before our time is completely up, we've got to talk about mistakes, because learning that mistakes are opportunity to learn is so healthy. We just need to say this to kids over and over Mistakes are opportunities to learn, and I still make them. And then you learn to apologize. It's okay to say you're sorry, and kids are usually so forgiving They'll say that's okay, mom. But this idea of so sometimes I need to say I'm too upset right now, I need to take some time out until I feel better and, if I've made a mistake, to go apologize I'm so sorry. So it's not about being perfect. I mean, I never did get it, I never got there. Never got perfection no, I haven't either.

Jane Nelsen:

And and even with adult children, uh, but uh, still just love knowing that, okay, I can apologize, I can say I'm sorry, and then we can focus on a solution that uh worked for everybody absolutely my daughter, Mary, said she was so surprised when she went to college you know, she was my youngest child, the one that lived with positive discipline from the time she was born and she just said that she was so surprised that her roommates thought of mistakes as something that they should be ashamed of or bad. She said no, they're just better solutions. And to me, I really believe that the one thing we can do that would save time, a lot of time for parents who are busy to have regular family meetings for 20 minutes a week, once a week, where you get to. Whenever there's a problem, put it on the agenda and focus on solutions, Teaching kids to brainstorm. They can brainstorm what are their ideas and they're so good at it.

Flora McCormick:

Yes, we've got to give them more credit than we do sometimes exactly.

Jane Nelsen:

And uh, the thing is too is, as you're listeners probably know, we have a whole deck of tool cards and that are all meet all the criteria and they're all kind and firm, which is the first criteria. So this, uh, and the more tools that the parents have, that instead of punishment, you know when they say are you just going to let kids are so good at solutions? And then you have the three criteria that if they come up with solutions that are not related or respectful and reasonable, those get crossed off and then the person who's. You know, even in class meetings, when I was doing them at first the kids would come up with a solution and they would maybe vote on it, but then we started letting the child who's having the problem choose the solution that they think will be most helpful. That just also made kids feel like if my name is on the agenda, I'm not in trouble, I'm just going to get all these solutions and I get to choose the one. It's just very empowering. It really helps kids feel that sense of belonging and significance. You know, it's just one of the best ways.

Jane Nelsen:

I think that if every family and every school was having class meetings, we'd have peace in the world, and I just saw this quote yesterday for the first time where it says the undisciplined child enters into discipline by working in the company of others, not by being told he is naughty. Discipline is therefore primarily a learning experience and less a punitive experience, if appropriately dealt with. And can I also say that my website is positivistlandcom, but the association is positivistlandorg and they have so much material also about where the classes are, and we're having our Positivistland Conference in Atlanta July 12th and so that's open to the public, anybody who wants to come, if they live in that area. And of course then we do our think tanks for all our trainers to come and practice our new skills.

Flora McCormick:

Wonderful, yes, and I can say I've gone through many different trainings on how to you know learning theories around parenting and child development, and yours is so unique in terms of all of the experiential activities and the way that you teach through looking out the eyes of a child standing in the shoes of a child. It's just so different, Jane, and I really appreciate you.

Jane Nelsen:

Thank you. Thank you, yeah, that's the part of the role playing is the parents get to role play what it's like to be the child and notice what they're thinking, feeling and deciding, and so they can then translate that and learn the more encouraging way. So it's nice to thank you for sharing it with so many people.

Flora McCormick:

Yes, and would you mind if I asked just a couple questions to follow up on all the wonderful things that you've shared? I can take as long as you want questions to follow up on all the wonderful things that you've shared.

Flora McCormick:

I can take as long as you want, okay, so one thought I'm having is that a lot of parents will tell me it's hard in this busy life with the stressors of fast pace. I've got to go, go go. I know you said it takes time. They may also feel stressed from finances and there are just so many things on their mind that they're trying to do that it can be hard inside to find the resource to be your kind and firm self. What have you found for yourself or with parents you've worked with, helps to try to grow internally the capacity to be kind and firm to try to grow internally the capacity to be kind and firm.

Jane Nelsen:

You know this is a tough one, because I've just noticed everybody's noticing that there's just more anxiety, more depression. We don't know whether it's the times. I blame our government, congress. Sometimes it's like our kids watching how they can't even solve a problem together, whatever it is. It's true that this is why we need these kind of tools. I think it's more that we don't have the kind of tools. Oh, let me just sorry, let me just decline that. My son took my anyway. I think this is all the more reason for having these tools, and I think that sometimes you just have the deck of tool cards, yes, and when there's a problem, say wait, why don't we just pull a card and see if?

Flora McCormick:

there's something on here.

Jane Nelsen:

How much time does that take? And it's almost always inspiring. But also to let your kids, to let them know I'm frazzled right now. I need to go, take some time out, yeah, and and take care of yourself. You do need to take care of yourself and teaching.

Jane Nelsen:

If your kids aren't making all these demands or if you're not having these power struggles with your kids, that certainly relieves a lot of stress to do that, and the thing is so much of it like taking 20 minutes a week to do a family meeting. Do you know? One of the reasons that's hopeful is not only the 20 minutes, but during the week we're having a problem. The kids are maybe fighting, and I'll say would one of you be willing to put that on the family meeting agenda? That just is the interrupt that says, oh, all right. Or you say I'm going to put this on the agenda because I'm too upset to talk about it right now. But I just really believe it just creates so much more peace in the home and so much less stress, and that's all the more reason why we need these tools.

Flora McCormick:

I completely agree, thank you.

Jane Nelsen:

And I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but it's going to make it. I don't know what else works better.

Flora McCormick:

Absolutely Right and I agree. I think some people think it's a chicken and an egg kind of thing. Like you're asking versus telling exercise. Parents will say I think I just need to be more patient with my child, like they think it's an internal character flaw, and then I'll do this exercise with them and they say, wow, I think I sound more patient when I use that curiosity question.

Flora McCormick:

So it's kind of like do you have to be patient to have the effective tool come out of you, or, using the effective tool, can it help you be more patient? I think it goes together.

Jane Nelsen:

Both ways. Yeah, yeah, it could be both, but I know that for me, when I'm really upset, of course you know we have the, the tool cards for marriage and for classroom and but whatever if I'm, if I just go to these, it'll be a reminder. It's just a way of almost a meditation, yes, to just help me, help me calm down. Oh yeah, I could try that. Uh, but also really being kind to ourselves about you know, it's okay, you do have stress, you do anxiety, and don't beat up on yourself. In addition to that, say, yeah, I'm glad I've got some tools to help. It's not going to necessarily take it away, but it might help.

Flora McCormick:

So can I ask another follow-up question what have you seen shift since your first book, published in 1981, to what you see in parenting right now?

Jane Nelsen:

your first book, published in 1981, to what you see in parenting right now. Yeah, I really see too much of a shift away from firmness to just kindness in the sense of pampering. And even when we had a live-in housekeeper because I was traveling so much and you know, even when we had a live-in housekeeper because I was traveling so much, her instructions were not to do everything for the kids but to make sure they did their chores that they still had the family meetings. She always came to our family meetings. And you know, the other thing is my parents never knew anything with my homework.

Jane Nelsen:

My teachers never went to my parents and this idea that you can look up and see what your grades are, there's just too much getting into kids' business instead of just letting them work it out with their teachers. I just think that that's too bad. So there's a lot going on to deal with. So that's all again, all the more reason why we need more tools, absolutely yes. But one thing I really don't want to put pressure on parents is okay, now you should be perfect, because this is not about being perfect.

Jane Nelsen:

This is about how. What do I do? And then I can. You know, our book that's kind of old now is called Positive Discipline. A to Z yes, I love that.

Jane Nelsen:

Yeah, the thing is is that it has just about every challenge you can think about. Now, it doesn't have technology yeah, it doesn't have that, which is all. But you know, online we have a book it's just a e-book called Help. My child is addicted to screens. Yikes, so am I? Oh, love it, and that does include some positive tools for dealing with screens. Uh, they're still addictive, though. I've got to admit that they're addictive, yes, and I don't think a lot of people have admitted that yet. Because they're, because adults are addicted, so yes, it's so true.

Flora McCormick:

I'll make sure there's links to the to the website purchasing those or to the help.

Jane Nelsen:

I'm addicted to screens, but I also think people really need coaches, like you. I bet that people are just finding so much relief. Grandparents and now so many people live in isolation and they don't even want to admit that they're having a challenge. Yeah, so the idea of being able to have a coach is just such a gift, so I'm glad you're out there doing that.

Flora McCormick:

thank you so much, and I'll give a link to my resource if you want to connect with the work that I do with virtual coaching. Well, thank you so much for your time, jane. It's been incredible to get to visit with you, and I so appreciate your wealth of wisdom.

Jane Nelsen:

Well, thank you, and thank you for all you're doing.